Reading Mary Daly’s Amazon Grace Chapter 3 – The First and Final Cause: She Who Attracts

seven of cups

The posts on Chapters One and Two are here and here.

So, it’s been a while since i’ve had time to write. It felt like i first needed to experience certain things that made me grasp Mary’s meaning on a gut level before i could write about the third chapter which is about change and Goddess consciousness.

A few days ago i went to a workshop by a coaching institute called Creative Consciousness. It was founded by some guy (Marc Stenberg) whose philosophy in coaching is “based on the ancient credo that all external changes begin internally in the human being (…).” This workshop which was called “Create your Life” finally gave me the concrete experiences to tie to my reading of Amazon Grace’s chapter three. More on the workshop later. First, let’s delve into the chapter.

In order to contrast men’s view on change with a radical Elemental feminist view she first explains how falafelosophers since Aristotle have explained how change comes about. Understanding how to facilitate change is important to Wild Women more than ever now because men’s atrocities and violence are escalating which will be apparent to anyone who has read the male-stream media recently: the refugee crisis, the IS’s terror attacks in Beirut, Paris and Kenya over the last few days complete with closing of borders, the rise of fascist ideology as socially acceptable, as well as the ongoing (but not reported on) pollution of the Pacific Ocean in the wake of Fukushima, as well as the horrific toxic waste spill in Brasil that happened a few days ago, just to name a few. Even in feminist, women-loving online spaces we can witness women lashing out at each other, being divided over the trans cult, the sisterly and compassionate ways of relating to one another we have fostered since Michfest being eroded… So how do we know what to do in the face of all these horrors? The global situation seems too hopeless and horrible; it is easy to feel paralyzed, crippled and numbed by feelings of fear and despair.

Under the gruesome rule of patriarchy A-mazing Amazons are made to feel that we have lost our senses. We struggle to regain our Sense of Direction.

But here Mary gives us hope:

In the face of devastation already wrought and being planned in this century, Trivial Women can consciously participate in the ongoing weaving of webs of connectedness in the Universe. We do this by diligently following our deep Purpose, that is, our Final Cause.

Back to Aristotle and his theory on causality and change. According to Aristotle, there are four causes which lead to change. These are the “material cause” which refers to that out of which something is made (for example, the wood out of which a table is made); the “formal cause” is the shape of the wood which makes it a table and not a chair, for example; then the “efficient cause” which refers to the agent who brings about the change (makes the wood into a table); and lastly, the “final cause” which is the purpose (having something to put books or plates on), the goal of the whole action. It is therefore the “first cause” because it moves the agent to start the whole process of making the table to begin with.

In this view of creating something, the purpose already exists in the mind of the agent before he (i’m sure Aristotle did not envision women to bring about change) started to actualize the intended effect into reality. As Mary concludes, this is an ultimately static view of change or creating because nothing really new can come into existence in this way. Only limited change in an ultimately changeless world. Only things that are already in men’s minds can be man-ifested in this way.

For Wild, Wicked Women, Realizing the Final Cause is something utterly Other than this.

Being faced as we are now with the horrific destruction of Earth by men we are feeling horrified. Yes, male violence and destruction has always been an integral part of patriarchy, but the recent escalation of it is something else. Who else is feeling abject horror at the thought that the Wild might be completely destroyed soon (can you watch that video about Brazil’s Rio Doce without feeling sick!?) or that we might have to live on an utterly zombified planet soon? Male-stream media coverage and “analysis” of current events typically mix information and disinformation, leaving us with the sense that all resistance is hopeless, that there is nothing Other than going round and round in closed circuits of violence and destruction. This is intentional. We are supposed to conclude that there is no alternative to patriarchy, and that our safest bet is to just keep going as usual and invest our energies in some male-led group over another.

There is, however, an Other way, if we follow the Final Cause. Mary characterizes the Final Cause as

the indwelling, always unfolding goal or purpose, perceived as Good and attracting one to Act, to Realize her own participation in Be-ing; the beginning, not the end of becoming; the First Cause and Cause of causes, which gives an agent the motivation to Act; Radical Feminism, the Cause of causes.

The ultimate Final Cause is She Who Attracts; She is Be-ing; She is Goddess.

In patriarchy, she is of course conceiled, for two reasons: because we are forced to live in the foreground, the “deadly state of reversal.”

Reversal is the

fundamental mechanism employed in the world-construction and world-maintenance of patriarchy; basic method employed in the making of patriarchal myths, ideologies, institutions, policies and strategies; mad, master-minded maneuver characteristic of mirrordom: INVERSION — turning everything inside out and upside down. Examples a: the absurd story of Eve’s birth from Adam b: the belief that man is superior to animals (and women! Alexis F. Daimon) c: the worship of male divinity d: the belief that the Radical Feminist world view is “narrow” and/or “dated.”

The second reason why Goddess is invisible is her inherent nature: as Verb, as Be-ing, She is always unfolding. Following Her, we know and don’t know where we are going at the same time. This is because we are participating in Her Creation (bold mine).

The Final Cause is an invitation and a challenge to keep on Weaving and Moving. Defying gravity, we fly in the face of the spreading evil. Moving on, we find new Sisters/Resisters. We Dis-cover and Realize deeper and wider connections in the Universe and Spin in Other Directions.

Of course it is easy to get confused and thrown off balance in this world of heightened reversals and lies. But when we try and sort through these lies and reversals we can actually know when we are on the right track. This is because when we are, we become “Luckier, better connected, so to speak, and more aware of Syn- Crone-icities.” I find this to be true. It does feel like being better connected, things happen that are in line, aligned with my deep Purpose. I feel less lost, i feel my life makes more sense the more aligned i become with Goddess. Things that happen make more sense, everything that happens to me is meaningful and has the potential to guide me along. Life becomes more and more coherent. Which is a good marker for how aligned one is, i think. Having experienced how it feels to be utterly lost, to feel fragmented and as if my life is incoherent and meaningless i recognize the difference. Not that i know what is going to happen in the future, but i feel like i am feeling my way forward in the dark, trying to find my tent, guided by the ferns stroking my feet at night in the Michigan woods. And it is not a coincidence that my life completely changed when i found Radical Feminism, the Cause of causes. It was like i was given an infusion of life and joy.

Entering this New Time/Space, Be-Witching Hags/Harpies Happen upon Lost and Found Continent.

Mary then gives an personal example of an experience of Losing and Finding:

After publishing Gyn/Ecology she received a letter by Audre Lorde in which the latter voiced some objections to the book, for example that it didn’t name Black Goddesses. Daly and Lorde met a few months later in person and had a discussion about the book and Lorde’s response to it. After that meeting Audre Lorde published and re-published her famous “Open Letter” (which had not been an open letter at all, but a personal one, initially) in slightly altered versions of the original personal letter in various anthologies. It is still more often assigned as required reading in Women’s Studies classes than Gyn/Ecology itself, and i remember actually having had Lorde’s letter thrown at me in order to prove Daly’s “racism.” I’m pretty sure these women had not ever read a single page of Daly’s work.

Anyway, briefly before Daly and Lorde met, the former wrote a reply to Lorde. Lorde denied ever receiving this letter and kept denying it while re-publishing her own “Open Letter.” Only 24 years later Mary Daly received a letter from Audre Lorde’s biographer Alexis De Veaux, informing her that she had actually found Daly’s letter in Lorde’s personal papers and asking for permission to quote from it.

Mary cites this experience as example of “manifestation of Trans-spatial/Transtemporal and Intergalactic consciousness.” There is a benevolent consciousness in the universe providing us with these “coincidences” (i’m sure my sisters who are into Law of Attraction know what i’m talking about).

Of course, making/letting these things happen/manifest is not always easy. Patriarchy does everything it can to make it so. We are faced with many obstacles and blocks, external as well and internal. Internal blocks that i have personally experienced are depression, anxiety, loneliness, addiction, sickness, exhaustion, poverty…i’m sure each of us could add her own volumes of this “stuff” (as the trainer in the “Creative Consciousness” workshop called it).

However, when we focus on our Final Cause/deep Purpose (which is really Goddess speaking to us through our intuition, our desire, our inner calling) we increasingly trust the presence of the web of interconnections of the whole of which we are a part. Quantum physics, systems theory and even biologists now ackowledge that relationships and cooperation between parts of the whole system are actually what drives evolution. It is more accurate to speak of co-evolution/co-creation.

Mary cites Fritjof Capra in his analysis of evolution:

Driven by the creativity inherent in all living systems, expressed through three distinct avenues — mutations, the trading of genes, and symbiosis — and honed by natural selection, the planet’s living patina expanded and intensified in forms of ever-increasing diversity.

However, he then goes on to say that “there is no evidence of any plan, goal, or purpose in the global evolutionary process and thus no evidence for progress.” Mary points out that he seems to conflate final causality  with “plan, goal, purpose” and since he cannot see empirical evidence for an intented end-point of evolution, he dismisses the thought that evolution could be anything else than “coincidental.” Pfft, men.

Another example for this kind of reductionist thinking cited in the chapter is the never-ending “debate” between “Creationism” and”Evolution,” presenting the issue – typically patriarchy – as an either/or situation, while in fact both are right and wrong at the same time. Evolution is a manifestation of Goddess, the Verb (= Be-ing).

She creates through us if we are open to hearing her call within ourSelves. We all know what that feels like, all of us who have been to the Land. That yearning in our hearts to manifest/many-fest many spaces where we can feel like we did at Fest? Lisa Vogel giving us acorns to plant “out there.” This is Her, speaking to us, speaking through us. Or the fact that i’m feeling pulled to sit here, day after day for a few hours after work, typing this… i know that’s Her feeling through me, creating through me.

What kind of “evidence” is there for the calling of the Final Cause, which is the Realization of Creativity? The answer lies in the realm where philosophy and mysticism meet. I can know that the process is happening, and this gives me intimations of the Creativity of the Universe. It is my own experience of the Cause of causes that opens the way to my conscious participation in the Creation of the Universe, and consequently to my real communication with other beings. It opens the way to expansion of Joy.

This process of consciously participating in the Attractive Power of  the Final Cause demands Lusty Leaps of Courage to Create. And this brings us Leaping around further to deeply Hearing and Naming Goddess the Verb. She is the Goddess of many Names. Perhaps Now especially we are called to Hear her Fiercest Name, which is Nemesis.

Nemesis, indeed. Goddess of divine retribution and revenge against those who succumb to hubris against natural law, i.e. patriarchy, the State of Hubris. Nemesis is also connected to Isis/Ma’at, who is the Goddess in her aspect as upholder of natural law, justice, wisdom. Goddess Isis becomes Nemesis when natural law is violated. Interestingly, Isis is also connected to Venus. I find this especially intriguing in the light of “ISIS'” recent attacks on Paris, city of love (i.e. Venus). Researching this connection, i found that Paris has long been associated with Isis. I’ll go more into depth about this in one of the next posts.

Anyway, to come back to that workshop by “Creative Consciousness International” that i attended. Wary as i am of patriarchal institutions, companies and settings in general, my patriarchal bullshit (= reversal) radar is always on when i venture out into mixed (=patriarchal) spaces such as this one, even though especially when they claim to present “awakened” thinking. During the workshop and in the workbook they gave us we were presented with a lot of talk about consciousness and it’s role in creating, such as Marc Steinberg’s (founder of Creative Consciousness International) mission statement:

Contributing to a global awakening in consciousness through facilitating awareness and consciousness development programs combined with 1st class coach training powered by the internationally accredited Consciousness Coaching methodology”

From an article by Adrian D. Nelson printed in the workbook:

Quantum mechanics suggests that the entire physical universe is potentially interconnected at a deep level of nature. So is the total informational content of the universe integrated in some deep sense? Is it in a mysterious way conscious of itself?

As spiritual traditions throughout the ages have long asserted, instead of isolated and separate experiencing beings, we may experience on behalf of the greater evolving system in which we find ourselves.

This does sound a lot like the real thing. Also, during the workshop i realized that what the trainer (herself a patriarchal witch, feminized and all) basically told us was witchcraft. Here are the 5 elements of creation from the workbook (my translation into witchy terms in brackets):

  1. Making happen and letting happen (i.e. setting an intention, sealing it and then letting law of attraction/natural law run it’s course)
  2. Integrity (being firmly rooted in self-love)
  3. The power of your WORD (i.e. spellcraft)
  4. Authenticity, being aligned with one’s true/deep/higher Self (i.e. goddess consciousness)
  5. Energy (being aware of energy leaks; being connected to Source)

Of course, it takes a witch to recognize witchcraft, so i don’t think any of the other participants (men and mostly feminized women) knew what they were really being told. Witchcraft and goddess consciousness were not named of course. Not that any of this is wrong, but throughout the workshop i couldn’t shake the feeling that something was missing, that there was a reversal going on somewhere because i KNOW that the whole truth cannot and will not ever be named in patriarchy. i think it was when the trainer talked about the obstacles that usually keep us from reaching our goals and dreams: she called it “stuff.” “Stuff” is, for example, past experiences of rejection etc. (i.e. past trauma). She asked us questions like “Who would you be without your fear of rejection? Who would you be without your negative stories, your “bad” past? Who would you be without your stories of victimization?” She told us that any “stuff” is always delayed projections that manifest as reality. Tell that to Malala, i thought. So Malala manifested the Taliban shooting her in the head herself then? Pshah. I find this kind of talk despicable and i don’t think it was a coincidence that the only people present at the workshop were white middleclass people who have probably never had extreme male violence inflicted on them. Only people like that can believe that *all* obstacles they encounter have an internal source.

And then it hit me. Yes, this was about witchcraft BUT a truncated and de-contextualized, de-politicized version of it. It had to be because the real thing is revolutionary and threatening to patriarchy. And that is why actual external obstacles that ALWAYS arise from male violence or are products, symptoms and consequences of formalized, institutionalized and legalized male violence (i.e. patriarchy) are denied, why internal blocks like depression, anxiety, fears, PTSD, disease etc. are cut off from their source, i.e. experiences of MALE VIOLENCE, are never named as such but presented as “delayed projections of internal stories of victimization!” As if we *make* ourselves victims by the stories we just (without reason!!) make up about ourselves. As if we could be free if we just stopped seeing ourselves as victims. As if the *feeling* of having been victimized is what cripples us, and not the actual trauma of men hurting us! What a giant mind-fuck! In reality, not being able to *name* the source of our trauma and blocks (MEN, male violence or acted out violence on the part of women, the source of which is also always male violence) is what keeps us crippled because it makes us feel as if any obstacles we encounter in our lives that result from having broken psyches are our fault. We have broken psyches because we have broken psyches; we have been victimized because we manifested that ourselves because of our stories of victimization.

It’s not that what the trainer told us at the workshop is 100% wrong. A lot of it is true. But it left out the important part: PATRIARCHY. MALE VIOLENCE.

At one point she even said that “our society” doesn’t encourage or support us from developing our true Self.” Not shit! That has to be the biggest understatement of the year. In fact, patriarchy brutally socializes us (and one tool is jendah) not to ever find our deep Self, our Wild Self, does everything it can to vilify and break that connection as early as possible. And why? Because “our society” is patriarchy, an evil, necrophiliac collective consciousness that, like all self-referential systems, is centrally interested in maintaining itself. And since it maintains itself by annililating/reversing Life Force/Goddess, we cannot ever be allowed to connect to said Life Force/Goddess/Wildness in ourSelves.

But of course the trainer never mentioned any of that. And so a very different picture was conveyed: we humans are not encouraged to develop our true Self by society (what is the essential character of that society?? Why??), and so we easily feel victimized by all kinds of not really victimizing things (we are just so weak and stupid) and then we just hold on to these stories and that stuff in our minds and are thus stuck in a repetitive cycle of manifesting these same stories again and again, keeping ourselves victimized and therefore never reaching “full-fillment” (how I hate that word.) Btw. here is what the Wickedary has to say about full-fillment:

  1. the saddest of the plastic passions: therapeutized perversion of the passion of joy 2: condition of women as vessels/vassals, as containers/carriers of plastic passions, ideas, self-images, and other waste products of junkocracy 3: the ultimate fulfillment of all necrophilic christian desire: the annihilation of all life.

According to the trainer and “Creative Consciousness International” the only way to step out of that cycle of victimization is to recognize it is all just in your head, remove the blocks in your head by stopping negative thoughts and replacing them with positive ones. In reality though, if you do not name the source of your trauma, you cannot resolve it, you cannot forgive yourself. Your personal consciousness might insist on saying, “but i HAVE been victimized, this is not just in my head.”

Not to worry tho, “CCI” has the solution to that problem (without ever naming  male violence and necrophilia as the sources, of course)! From the workbook (bolds are mine):

If we see the ego as part of the framework in which we think and feel then it’s obvious that this framework, this context which Marc refers to as consciousness, has to be transformed as well. In fact, consciousness has to be made to fit to operate on a more powerful, efficient level.

The Consciousness Coach has to initiate that the client ‘spins around himself so fast that he starts seeing himself from the back.’(…) However, the difference to conventional motivational methods is that the motivation wasn’t dumped on the delegate’s consciousness but in Consciousness Coaching the delegate’s consciousness manages to liberate itself from all de-motivational factors.

Leaders today need more than just skills – they need awareness and the power to operate consciousness. Without this power leaders will employ force. Power will be accepted, force rejected. Power comes as a by-product of being in charge of one’s thoughts and emotions, and for this to be achieved one needs to understand, exercise and master consciousness.

 

Note the controlling, dominating language. So here a view of consciousness is conveyed as something that can be man-ipulated (“operated, exercised and mastered”) by convincing people that they are solely responsible for what they experience because of their negative feelings and thoughts (“stuff”) without naming men’s reality (men’s collective consciousness) as the source of all horrors in the world. In addition to invisibilizing the source of all “de-motivational factors” it also obscures the source of the deep Purpose (the Final Cause – Goddess) because that would lead to the discovery of Nemesis, i.e.

participation in the powers of the Goddess Nemesis, Elemental disruption of the patriarchal balance of terror; Passionate Spinning/Spiraling of Archaic threads of Gynergy.

Instead, it spins the person around until she believes that all obstacles are solely in her head and only her own ego is preventing her from being happy and living a Lusty life! It really is a genius magic trick to make the individual (ego) feel responsible for her own misery. It is major victim-blaming and gaslighting, keeping women in a tailspin.

The workshop ended with a cheesy video of sunsets, sunrises, smiling happy people, waterfalls, skies and a male voice-over instructing us to be “grateful for the gifts of civilization” because “we get to turn on the taps and have warm water every day while most people on this earth don’t even have access to clean water.” No shit. Ever wondered *why* and *how* “civilization” allows us various comforts and *why*and *how* most people don’t have access to clean water?! Could there be a connection there??

The “inspirational” video ended with a view of the Eiffel tower surrounded by fireworks. I kid you not. I should mention that i attended that workshop the day after the terrorist attacks on Paris. The irony was not lost on me. But more on that connection in the next post. I could go on, but this post is already very long. I hope you enjoyed it and am curious about your comments, dear sisters.

Alexis

orange goddess

 

 

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15 Responses to Reading Mary Daly’s Amazon Grace Chapter 3 – The First and Final Cause: She Who Attracts

  1. Orlando says:

    The way you dissected that CCI group’s blind spots and lies was brilliant. I absolutely loved this post… your words ring with the unmistakeable sound of Truth. So many “ah-ha!” moments for me, here.

    I continue to be amazed how your writing is seeming to be moving along a path very similar to the one my life is on… educating me as I go in all the little ways I’m most needing. To quote a song, She moves in mysterious ways.

    Just today I had an amazing encounter that very obviously had the Divine’s touch pushing it along. If I get time I’ll post about it at my own journal.

    Thank you again for writing! It’s doing so much for me.

  2. Hi Orlando,
    yes, you got blocked by my spam filter.
    I’m glad you liked the post. I’m interested to read your thoughts..which aha moments did you have??

  3. Orlando says:

    Alexis,
    I guess it was just a tier of realisations about why nothing fully makes sense under patriarchy… they feed you partial truths as complete, but they’re always missing the final puzzle piece, which is that patriarchy exists and it is causing the problems in the first place. And they teach us to ignore the niggling feeling that says, “LIES! This is missing something!”

    I’ve struggled for years with the idea that the nuclear (patriarchal) family is a pretty facade for an ugly institution, and the way you described the holes in this CCI group’s spiel sort of made the thought process clear for me. “Family” is presented as this unassailable foundational element of humanity, when in fact it is the source of much of the trauma and abuse people (especially womyn) around the world suffer. Patriarchy says: “Are you fucked up? If it’s not all in your head, then your mother probably did it. But ultimately, only being part of a family can prove your sanity and make you happy.” It’s this circular “reasoning” that’s everywhere.

    “there is no evidence of any plan, goal, or purpose in the global evolutionary process and thus no evidence for progress.”
    ^ Isn’t that just lovely? There’s another thing that drives me mad about patriarchy: the false dichotomies. “You must either believe in creation or evolution. There is no middle ground and the two ideas are in total opposition to each other”. Utter bullshit. It doesn’t take a genius to see that the universe is propelled by a generative and organisational force of some kind. It causes creation, evolution, and order to exist – in progressive complexity – which makes no sense if you believe in a “random, meaningless” universe. Why would the big bang have ever occurred in a random, meaningless universe? Why would anything have patterns? That takes too much energy when molecules could be bumping around AT RANDOM. There would be no reason for anything to happen, so nothing would BE. And that is nonsense.

  4. Hi Orlando!
    Yes, exactly, the big fucking elephant in the room concerning EVERY topic is always: Patriarchy. Male violence! It always gets left out so nothing every makes complete sense and only leads to circular reasoning and mindfucks. It’s true, it’s not just CCI. It’s everywhere, every time!

  5. Terhi says:

    Some brief observations on Orlando’s post.

    “Utter bullshit. It doesn’t take a genius to see that the universe is propelled by a generative and organisational force of some kind.”

    Yes. The laws of physics govern the universe. So nothing is random — or maybe everything is random, after all, since things seem to occur utterly-randomly at the quantum level.

    At the same time, the science of evolution addresses nothing concerning the universe, but only how life has evolved on Earth after it had first come into being. That is, evolution explains how current life forms have developed into the form they are from the first single-cell life forms, and how and why they continue to change (called ‘the evolution of species’ in biology); evolution does not attempt to explain how the universe came into existence or even how life on Earth *bagan.* Completely different fields of study (physics and biogenesis, respectively) concentrate on those two questions. That evolution has been proven, does not prove anything about biogenesis or the Big Bang. They are different phenomena. Thus, lots of religious people both accept evolution (since it is a demonstrated fact) as well as believe, at the same time, in creation of some sort as the original life instigator on our planet. Scientists, of course, do not accept creationists theories in any part of the life-chain, since creationism cannot (at the moment) be demonstrated to conform with reality by the rigor science demands. In common parlance, creationism cannot be proven in any way. Nor can any of the prevailing naturalistic biogenesis theories be proven yet; hence the question of how, exactly, life on Earth *first* began remains officially open.

    “Why would the big bang have ever occurred in a random, meaningless universe?”

    The Big Bang did not occur in the universe. Rather, the universe came into being as the result of the Big Bang. That is, the laws of physics, causality, randomness, time itself, that 1 + 1 = 2 — everything that we understand about reality — exist in corollary of the Big Bang. It is therefore challenging to talk about the cause of the Big bang or things that preceded it, since temporal precedence did not exist ‘prior’ to the Big Bang. On the other hand, physicists have been able to show through the math of qunatum physics that something can randomly come out of nothing — yes, literally — at the quantum level. That is one way to look at the Big Bang, as nothing existed before it. It may have been a quantum phenomenon. Or soemthing else.

    “Why would anything have patterns?”

    If one takes multiverse as a realistic viewpoint, then it necessarily follows that we can only exist in such a randomly-generated universe that behaves non-randomly by its specific laws of physics. In other words, if there is an infinite number of universes, or universes come into existence and implode in an endless cycle of Big Bangs, then the probability by which our particular university is randomly yet ineluctacly engendered at some point ‘down the line’ is 1, that is, 100%.

    “That takes too much energy when molecules could be bumping around AT RANDOM.”

    If some of the key physical constants that dictate our university were even very slightly different, those molecules might indeed do so, or, more preccisely, there would be no molecules at all. But then, we would not exist in such a university, so they necessarily cannot be so in ours. Hence, our university cannot be arrantly random.

  6. Orlando says:

    Alexis,

    Funny thing is, I know intellectually that patriarchy is at the root of all of our problems currently, yet having the emotional realisation is somehow very different from “knowing the facts”. I guess there are “levels” of awakening to be had when learning Radical Feminism.

  7. Orlando says:

    Terhi,

    Hi, I’m afraid you completely missed my point. What caused the big bang to occur? What “substrate” was the big bang able to generate itself from? Where did the matter in this universe originate? What existed prior to the big bang? If this universe originated in a prior “bubble” universe, then where did the matter from that prior universe originate? Why do the laws of physics exist? How and why do they function as they do? Please provide your evidence that “nothing” existed prior to the big bang.

    I’m well aware that evolution does not explain the existence of the universe. I’m well aware of many things you seem to think I don’t know.

    You haven’t answered any of my questions, and patriarchal science is not likely to be able to, because it has divorced itself from the intuitive faculty that allows epiphanies to be made.

    The existence of an entity that may have had a hand in generating life on this planet, and perhaps other aspects of the universe, can in fact be individually proven (the same way any of us can prove to ourselves that the phenomenon of dreaming is real, even though it cannot currently be directly measured in any way, or observed by more than one person at once). That is why we have psychedelic plants. And the cool part of this statement is, you don’t need to believe what I’m saying, because it’s not about faith. All you have to do to prove me right or wrong is have a high-level psychedelic experience for yourself. Then you will have the personal evidence you need to reach your own conclusion.

  8. Terhi says:

    Orlando:

    “What caused the big bang to occur?”

    As I explained, the Big Bang could have been a quantum event taking place in a state that contained nothing; a state, in a word, that was void. Such occurrences are permitted by quantum physics. Or maybe it was soemthing else. I do not know.

    “What “substrate” was the big bang able to generate itself from? ”

    As I also mentioned, a quantum occurrence can, at least in theory, manifest in nothingness, resulting in something being engendered which is no longer void aka nothing. The germane math allows this. Whether this or something else happened, no-one today knows. We can only hypothesise.

    “here did the matter in this universe originate?”

    From quantum physics — or from something else. We do not know.

    “What existed prior to the big bang?”

    Technically, nothing could exist ‘prior’ to the Big Bang, since time — and hence temporal precedence or antecedence — came into existence in consequence of the Big Bang (as the theory of relativity evidences.) To us humans, however, it is quite impossible to imagine anything that exists without time. Hence, we cannot conceive in any meaningful fashion that which might have ‘preceded’ the Big Bang.

    “If this universe originated in a prior “bubble” universe, then where did the matter from that prior universe originate?”

    Neither I nor anyone else knows if there is a multiverse or whence something like that could originate. We know there could be a multiverse, since it is mathematically feasible. The only thing we have in this area are such coulds and cans. We cannot observe anything ‘beyond’ the Big Bang, since all that now exists — matter, energy — came into existence then — not a moment before or after. That is, no new energy, for instance, has been created since the Big Bang. All that is, has always been, and ‘always,’ here, traces back to the Big Bang and to nothing else ( that we can descry).

    “Why do the laws of physics exist? How and why do they function as they do?’

    In corollary of the Big Bang. Since I am not a physicist, I cannot give a more learnt answer to you, I am afraid.

    “Please provide your evidence that “nothing” existed prior to the big bang.”

    Nothing existed before it since there is no such thing as ‘before the Big Bang.’ Time began in the Big Bang.

    “You haven’t answered any of my questions, and patriarchal science is not likely to be able to, because it has divorced itself from the intuitive faculty that allows epiphanies to be made.”

    Science toils to find that which conforms with reality. In common parlance, this is called ‘truth,’ but, if we go splitting hairs, science does not, as a matter of fact, make truth claims, since truth is impossible to prove in Nature. In any case, when attesting whether an observation explains reality to the highest degree of accuracy attainable, the scientists has to always adhere to the scientific method. There is no other faculty known to the humankind that can corroborate whether a statement about reality is accurate with what can be observe about reality.

    “The existence of an entity that may have had a hand in generating life on this planet, and perhaps other aspects of the universe, can in fact be individually proven”

    Individual proves have little value outside the individual’s own sphere of experience, unless the individual can demonstrates that the postulation is verifiable within other people’s sphere of experience as well. That is exactly what the scientific method does. A person is allowed to extricate as much value from their personal experiences as they desire. This is normal human behaviour. But that I should accept as true something extraordinary — say, that a specific God exists — which another person posits, just because they happen to so posit, would be utterly dumb on my part. Of course I do not believe just any high-flying argument somebody publicly advances. Hhow, then, do I establish which extraordinary arguments that are part of someone else’s reality are likely to be true in mine and others’ as well, in lieu of being mere individual fantasies, that is? Science. It has proven itself in this endeavour, whereas all other means of finding demonstrable answers to extraordinary claims — religion being a common device tried here — have utterly failed in doing so. Indeed, gods have yet to provide us with a single new vaccination, method of surgery, observation of a remote star, means of travelling safely long distances, or a method for sharing information on the internet, or anything at all. Science does that every day. Science has a good CV, so to say. Other approaches have no CV to begin with. Praying to gods has yet to provably manifest anything; and philosophy, every little intellectual’s favourite racket, only proposes questions, being as it is unable to grand useful answers.

    “(the same way any of us can prove to ourselves that the phenomenon of dreaming is real, even though it cannot currently be directly measured in any way, or observed by more than one person at once)”

    Dreaming most certainly is observable, and hence has been proven, in the brain during sleep. Neorologists have studied dreaming for decades. What we cannot observe (yet) and thus independently verify is the subjective content of the dream the sleeper experiences.

    Individual experience still remains unreliable. Is the recollection of the dream accurate? Does that even matter in this or that context? At any rate, when one is under the influence of hallucinogenic drugs, for instance, or is afflicted by certain mental illnesses, such as schizophrenia or severe paranoia, one’s perception of the reality becomes distorted. The individual’s prove which you referenced above, now proves that something which is not true is, supposedly, true; and the person making that truth claim is arrantly incapable of determining their error (for that is, obviously, why they are deemed ill or drugged).

    “All you have to do to prove me right or wrong is have a high-level psychedelic experience for yourself. Then you will have the personal evidence you need to reach your own conclusion.”

    I do not know what a ‘high-level psychedelic experience’ is. Are you referring to some drug-educed state of mind? If so, it cannot possibly be a dependable way of deducing anything very reliable about the reality.

  9. Terhi says:

    I should have added that it probably manifests quite overtly in my position on those questions that I do not believe in the existence of gods, the goddess, or any appurtenant preternatural phenomena. This is a good thing. For if I did possess such theistic beliefs, I could not but be exceedingly angry at the goddess. And I do not exactly need new sources for anger at this time.

    But should science someday discover a supernatural goddess phenomenon, I sure would like to pass her a word or two on her patent absenteeism from, and callous disregard for, this world, or what you radfems call patriarchy and its ramifications. (I eschew calling myself radfem, since I detest labels and at any rate do not agree with the seemingly-innate transcendental and spiritual aspects of radical feminism. And Mary Daly goes way over my head).

  10. Have you actually read my posts? Quantum physics does affirm that there is a consciousness in all of us and all of it.

  11. Goddess is in you. Goddess is angry. Through you.

  12. Terhi says:

    “Have you actually read my posts? Quantum physics does affirm that there is a consciousness in all of us and all of it.”

    i have read them, yes. But I fail to grasp this aspect, I am afraid. In fact, I find the entire series arcane. Paragraph after paragraph, I am left scratching my head, asking ‘What?’

    Perhaps this stuff is beyond my acumen. I fail to comprehend the connexion between consciousness and such naturalistic processes as evolution, notwithstanding the explanation in the article. I fail to grasp, ditto, how the destruction of our planet is a patriarchal manifestation, when women — like mysefl! — contribute to the demolition with equal zest, at least for now. I mean, every time we log online — use the internet — we produce unsustainable amounts of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere. After all, internet runs on servers, which run on electricity. This state of affairs ensues till cleaner energy can be feasibly produced in large enough quantities — which it today cannot yet be, although a huge amount of work is going into realizing that goal. Ad rem, meeting our basic needs necessitates clean water, the power grid, eletric or combustion engines, etc. I fail to fathom what the realistic alternative is, unless we accept Medieval life expectancy, 19th century newborn death rates and the apposite dangers associated with giving birth — to name just a few examples — by eliminating the safety networks that ‘patriarchal’ technology has engendered.

    Maybe my contribution to this discussion is closing in on nought here, since I reside in my thinking so far off the arguments made on these pages.

  13. Orlando says:

    “Goddess is in you. Goddess is angry. Through you.”

    Exactly.

  14. Orlando says:

    Once again, Terhi, you completely missed my point. You don’t HAVE the answers to my questions, because our species lacks the technology/biology to find the answers at this current time.

    You come across as very condescending, closed minded, and as if you are using uncommon synonyms for common words to make yourself sound more intelligent than others. It makes communicating with you difficult. Other people in this thread are well read and have been to university, and I for one don’t appreciate your attitude.

  15. Terhi says:

    Orlando:

    OK.

    Well, I am not a native English speaker, yet have read a lot of arhcaic English literature, in consequence of which my word choices may be less than optimal for the discerning contemporary ear. In my native tongue, I am regarded as an efficient communicator, but that does not help here, of course.

    “You don’t HAVE the answers to my questions, because our species lacks the technology/biology to find the answers at this current time.”

    I do not know how that is supposedly incommensurate with what I wrote. Oh, sorry, how that disagrees with what I wrote, I meant to say. Call me supercilious, sorry, haughty, if you want. I am OK with that. I have made my career in a male-centric environment imbued with laddie-esque logrolling, and have hence learnt to exercise my elbows in creating and maintaining a space for myself. It follows tgat women, too, may at times end up on the wrong end of my trigger-happy pushing arm, even though that is usually unintentional.

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